Subj : Ham radio in the backcountry > A CB handheld with 5 watts on channel 9 would possibly > be every bit as much or more useful. There are groups like REACT > monitoring channel 9 very consistently. And while you really aren't > SUPPOSED to do skip work on CB, I doubt that the FCC would crack > on somebody doing legitimate rescue work. And yes, 5 watts CAN > and DOES propagate over VERY long distances. It's called QRP > in the ham bands, the closest analog being the 10-meter band. > My point here is that a longer wavelength doesn't have the > line-of-sight limitations that VHF stuff does, and could be more > likely to be heard over the next ridge. I have a 5-watt (input side) 40-channel handheld CB but I have always left it at home because the range (I believed) was limited. I am planning a western trip this summer, possibly in the Tetons or Canadian Rockies. Obviously a CB would have great range up high, -a CB signal at 5000 feet above the valley floor could conceivably go 30 miles or more but in dense wood or around cliffs the radio would be as useful as a brick. Will a 2-metre radio get out of the valleys? If I already have a darn good CB, would I be justified in getting my no-code FCC license and a ham outfit? Subj : Ham radio in the backcountry > Will a 2-metre radio get out of the valleys? No better than CB, maybe worse. Being it's a higher frequency it's more limited to line-of-sight, where CB can (potentially) skip to great distances. A 5W CB should be just as good as a 5W 2M ham radio -- if you can find one, HTs are usually only good for 2.5W on high power -- with two exceptions: First, the ham radio is FM, the CB is AM, so the ham radio is more readable if it gets through. Second, the ham bands are quieter and better ordered; the CB bands are a noisy free-for-all. Subj : Ham radio in the backcountry The business about amateur radio in the backcountry... If considering effective radiated power (ERP) versus weight of the system, i strongly suspect the average 2m handheld will beat CB equipment fairly easily. Most 2m HTs will put out 5 watts if driven by a 12 volt battery, the reason most of them only put out 2.5 watts or so, is that they are typically sold with a lower voltage battery. This is easily fixed. Narrow band FM works much better than AM. Possibly more efficient on xmit and definitely better detection on receive. The antenna on the typical backpacked CB is likely to be quite a compromise, while the average 2M HT can be carried with a 3' 1/2 wave whip and the extra gain over compromise antennas is a plus. A similar antenna on the CB band would be about 16' long. For line-of-sight communications, i suspect path losses on CB to be as great as 2m. I have found 2m bounces around mountains with great enthusiasm. Personal experience only. For straight terrestrial line-of-sight paths, 2m FM is very effective and one gets some defraction over mountains as well. In addition there are repeaters on 2m, unavailable on CB and often well situated. Also, most ht's can be quickly modified to cover the NP and national forest ranger repeaters that reside above the 2m band. One example would be the ranger machine on top of Mt. Hoffman in the center of Yosemite. Something of course that should never be used, but in case of a life threatening emergency i will be happy to suffer the legal consequences - never had to jump out of band yet. Makes interesting listening though. My ht covers 2 ham bands, commercial bands, many ranger machines, the weather band, police repeaters, etc. This beats a CB unit pretty soundly. Once while in a local park, i dialed 911 through an amateur repeater. This is great if no cells are locally active and i suspect amateur repeaters will cover more area than cell phones for a while yet - at least until Iridium is working. In the Sierras and Mendacino mountains, running 1/2 watt into a 3' whip, i can often hit people down in the Sacramento valley, upwards of 100+ miles away - on simplex. In the Ansel Adams wilderness i can sometimes hit a repeater on Mt. Rose near Lake Tahoe, a long ways through winding high country - as one example. I question how useful skip would actually be from a CB handheld unit when the band opens. Likely the band will fill with noise and lots of other signals. I suspect such an operator is unlikely to be heard by anybody, unless a given CB channel is fairly quite, via skip or locally as higher powered stations coming in will over power the handheld unit even in its own proximity - making it useless. All that said, when hiking alone, i leave the damn thing in the car. When hiking with a licensed friend they can be a lot of fun. We can separate for a day and remain in contact. I think the potential for a 2m unit is FAR greater than comparable CB gear. But 2m takes greater operator knowledge to use effectively. Subj : Ham radio in the backcountry > Will a 2-metre radio get out of the valleys? If I already have a darn good C B, > would I be justified in getting my no-code FCC license and a ham outfit? *Nothing* short of a longer wave length radio or something which works with a satellite will reliably get out of the valleys. You may get lucky and get a skip but I wouldn't count on it. However with 2 meter I think you have a better chance than with CB, primarily because of the availability of repeaters. This of course depends on where you are and where the repeaters are. If you are in Zig-zag Canyon on Mt. Hood you probably couldn't reach anyone with a CB but there is a 2 meter repeater above you and close enough you could probably reach it with 20 milliwatts. On the north side of the mountain another repeater in Hood River provides reliable communication. However if you are in a really remote canyon neither 2 meter nor CB is likely to work. > I get the feeling this has been discussed for a while but I missed it. Feel > free to send E-mail to keep from annoying usenet readers if you like. Yup! Here is something I wrote hoping someone would upgrade it and make it into an FAQ: There are several means of electronic communication available for use in the backcountry. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. For those wanting such a thing here is my summary: CB Radio: Advantages: Relatively cheap, no license required. Disadvantages: Highly uncertain if you will be able to contact anyone. Range is very limited except for unreliable "skips." Cellular Phone: Advantages: Easiest to use, no license required. Disadvantages: Expensive. Highest cost for initial equipment plus monthly fee required. However some people already have them for business reasons. Coverage is limited, in some areas it is quite good but at present these are the exception in the back country. If you are very far from the road a cellular probably won't work. "Ham" Radio (2 meter FM): Advantages: Repeaters provide the best coverage of any small, lightweight communication device commonly available. At least in the U.S. if you can get to a reasonably high place you can nearly always contact someone (buy a repeater directory, about $5, to find the frequencies). Many of these repeaters offer direct access to emergnecy service agencies (or even the regular phone system). These amateur frequencies are also widely used all over the world. In some cases one country will allow you to transmit based on your license from a different country. Repeater availibility also varies with country. Check rules etc. in the country where you plan to travel. Disadvantages: A license is required. You must pass a test. However to use 2 meter you only need a "No-code technician" license so you don't need to learn code (at least in the U.S.). Radios for this band are priced from around $200 to about as much as you care to spend. Used radios are also available at lower prices since many hams want the latest and greatest so they sell their older equipment. At least one model (Icom H16) will legally do both ham and commercial frequencies (including search and rescue frequencies). Other models will work on both 2 meter and 70 cm (70 cm is also good but not as useful in the backcountry as 2 meter). A telescoping antenna (about $30) is useful and extends the range, often considerably depending on conditions. Lower Frequency Ham Radios: Advantages: Very reliable contact. Literally can make contact from pretty much anywhere in the world. By choosing the proper frequency you can usually contact someone without the need for a repeater, even over very long distances. Disadvantages: License harder to get than for 2 meter (code is required). Worse, the equipment is not nearly as portable as 2 meter and you usually need to set up a long antenna for reliable use. Except for major expeditions I don't know of anybody who takes these into the backcountry. A general note on radios: Although a license is required for normal use *anybody* who knows how to operate one may do so in an emergency, at least in the U.S. This is allowed only for the communications necessary to deal with the emergency. Of course few people are going to spend the money to get a radio which they can use only in an emergency, nearly all radio owners have a licenses. However this rule is an advantage to non-licensed members of a group where one has a radio and license. If the licensed operator is incapacitated someone else can (if he knows how) operate the radio in an emergency. Of course this unlicensed operator better hope that the FCC agrees that it was a real emergency, otherwise he will probably pay a *big* fine.