Ä SURVIVAL_ORIENTE (9:1992/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ECHOMAIL018 Ä Msg : 334 of 338 - 324 From : Terry Buyers 1:3624/7 Thu 21 Jan 93 19:40 To : Todd Preston Subj : Survival Guns ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > >around. In fact, the .223 is pretty mean with soft points! > > Guy: Terry > So the SKS, AK47, AR15, and Mini-14 all fire .223 ammo? The AK and the SKS are usually 7.62 x 39mm - about equivalent to .30- 30 in power. Neither of the above are full power battle rifle rounds. > > Are these weapons similar to the 9mm autos, that need to > be maintained > or serviced more than "once a year at Christmas time?" Any military configuration rifle will take more abuse and lack of cleaning than a target or hunting rifle. Any weapon needs to be cleaned on a regular basis to promote reliable function. > > How field serviceable/repairable is the SKS? > > The military ammo is that full jacketed "darn near armor > piercing" > stuff? I heard someone say that 223 would be a pretty good > stopper > using hunting ammo. Would this mean that the wound channel By definition a 'ball' or military type round is designed to punch a hole straight through. Hunting ammunition is designed to cut a larger wound channel. > ballistics > would be much better using soft pointed or hollow pointed > ammo, because > instead of just flying through you, they would mushroom You get into an esoteric world of speed of projectile and mushrooming performance here... > and fragment? > > So for practicing and plinking, the "military ammo" would > be cool, but > for killing game the soft nosed is superior? How available > is the soft > nosed ammo in bulk? Are the "military ammo" brass compatible > with > reloading into soft nosed? > > Karen: I feel like you today, asking basic questions. > I only hope mine Berdan primed brass is reloadable only with great effort - any boxer primed brass is fairly easy to reload. --- Opus-CBCS 1.10b * Origin: Schrodinger's Catbox(803)652-3760 PRNetSC SURVNet (1:3624/7.0) Ä SURVIVAL_ORIENTE (9:1992/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ECHOMAIL018 Ä Msg : 346 of 356 - 334 + 347 From : Guy Putnam 9:1992/2 Fri 22 Jan 93 01:22 To : Todd Preston Subj : Survival Guns ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ -=> Quoting Todd Preston to Guy Putnam <=- TB> But I prefer a real caliber in a battle rifle... GP>Well, I do too......but it doesn't hurt to keep a few mouse guns >around. In fact, the .223 is pretty mean with soft points! TP> Guy: Terry TP> So the SKS, AK47, AR15, and Mini-14 all fire .223 ammo? No, the Mini 14 & AR-15 fire .223. The AK & SKS fire 7.62x39, which is kind of like a .308 "short," with about the same performance as the 30-30. TP> Are these weapons similar to the 9mm autos, that need to be maintained TP> or serviced more than "once a year at Christmas time?" No, they are rifles & most 9mm's are in pistol form, except the Marlin 9mm & .45 carbines. TP> How field serviceable/repairable is the SKS? It's very field derviceable.......if you have parts. TP> The military ammo is that full jacketed "darn near armor piercing" TP> stuff? Yes, military ammo is required to be full metal jacketed (FMJ), under the terms of the Geneva Convention. The FMJ does penetrate more than soft-point, but AP penetrates even more because it's got a tungston core shaped like a cone. TP> I heard someone say that 223 would be a pretty good stopper TP> using hunting ammo. Would this mean that the wound channel ballistics TP> would be much better using soft pointed or hollow pointed ammo, TP> because instead of just flying through you, they would mushroom and TP> fragment? Yes, that's right. TP> So for practicing and plinking, the "military ammo" would be cool, but TP> for killing game the soft nosed is superior? That's right. FMJ would penetrate better on cars, etc. TP> How available is the soft nosed ammo in bulk? Its quite available.......at 3-4 times the price. The best buy in soft-point is IMI ammo marketed as Samson or UZI. TP> Are the "military ammo" brass compatible with reloading into soft TP> nosed? Yes, but usually the primer pockets on the military brass have to be swaged when reloading the first time around. TP> Karen: I feel like you today, asking basic questions. I only hope TP> mine are as intelligent as yours! They'll get by........... :-) --- Blue Wave/Max v2.05 [NR] * Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512)282-3941 HST/DS @16.8 (9:1992/2.0) Ä SURVIVAL_ORIENTE (9:1992/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ECHOMAIL018 Ä Msg : 358 of 366 - 330 + 366 Rcv From : Neal Atkins 1:382/91 Sat 23 Jan 93 09:31 To : John Mudge Subj : Chinese SKS ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ John Mudge wrote in a message to All: JM> 1) Does it have a built-in flash guard, or, if not, is one JM> available? How does it attach (internal or external JM> threads?)? If internal threads, doesn't this interfere with JM> the bullet passing through? No flash guard is standard. An external one that is pinned to the front sight is avaliable. JM> 2) Are all of them chambered for 7.62mm ammo? Is the ammo JM> they use specific to that rifle, or will 7.62 Nato, for JM> example, work? Will .308 ammo work? No, it is 7.62x39. Ammo is avaliable quite cheap and in FMJ and softpoint. Most cheap ammo is berdan primed but boxer is avalible. 3) What does the JM> "standard" rifle look like. Are all metal parts a dull JM> black? Is the standard stock plastic? Does it have a sling JM> as standard equipment? The standard is blued with 20.5 in barrel. A shorty is avaliable with 16 in barrel. 4) What does it take to adapt the JM> clip/magazine to accept an AK-47 clip/magazine? AK clip is not adaptable without modifications. see #5. The standard is 10 rd non-removable clip. a 20 rd is avaliable. JM> 5) What modifications can be made by the owner under the JM> current federal laws? GOOD QUESTION! Technically, a post 89 sks cannot be "modified" with a detacable clip or folding stock. However, the resolve of BATF(ags) to prosecute individual owners is questionable, but ask Clinton first. 6) Would this make a good survival JM> hunting rifle? One of the best on price/utility. JM> 7) Does it have a built-in bayonet? If not, are they JM> included when one is purchased? The 20.5 in barrel comes with a triangular poniard like blade. But why? Are you considering bayonet charges? JM> Thanks. Sure, just ask. --- timEd/B6 * Origin: Texas on Line! 1:382/91.51 (1:382/91) Ä SURVIVAL_ORIENTE (9:1992/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ECHOMAIL018 Ä Msg : 360 of 366 - 350 + 361 From : David Hart 9:1992/166 Thu 21 Jan 93 07:24 To : Todd Preston Subj : Survival Guns ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ TP>Guy: Terry TP> So the SKS, AK47, AR15, and Mini-14 all fire .223 ammo? The SKS does not fire the .223. It fires 7.62x39. This is a real good cartridge but if being used with surplus ammo it does need cleaning after firing because of the corosive properties of most of the Surplus Ammo. * OLX 2.1 TD * Rush Limbaugh: God's gift to Democrats! --- GEcho 1.00/beta+ * Origin: Pride of the Plains (806)983-3341 Floydada,TX 9600 (9:1992/166) Ä SURVIVAL_ORIENTE (9:1992/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ECHOMAIL018 Ä Msg : 370 of 380 - 366 + 371 Rcv From : Dean Varner 9:1992/2 Fri 22 Jan 93 17:55 To : John Mudge Subj : Chinese SKS ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ JM>Hello All! JM>Judging by all the information I have seen here, it appears JM>that the Chinese SKS has the best price/performance ratio. JM>I do have a few questions about it, though. JM>1) Does it have a built-in flash guard, or, if not, is one JM>available? How does it attach (internal or external JM>threads?)? If internal threads, doesn't this interfere JM>with the bullet passing through? There is several available. They attache by a longer pin that replaces the one which holds the sights on. The trouble is, is that with the flash/flash-muzzle break/muzzle break (all are made), then the bayonet can't fold out and over the front of the barrel, which is how it locks in place.. JM>2) Are all of them chambered for 7.62mm ammo? Is the ammo they use specific JM>to that rifle, or will 7.62 Nato, for example, work? Will JM>.308 ammo work? Yes, they are all chambered in 7.63 x 39. And no, the 7.63 nato will not work. JM>3) What does the "standard" rifle look like. Are all JM>metal parts a dull black? Is the standard stock plastic? Standard is a wood stock with black metal. They could be compared to a standard M-1. JM>Does it have a sling as standard equipment? Yes, it should. JM>4) What does it take to adapt the clip/magazine to accept JM>an AK-47 clip/magazine? It takes a little machining, though a friend said he thought he could do it with a dremil. There are other clips like an ak available, that will replace the fixed 10 round standard. JM>5) What modifications can be made by the owner under the JM>current federal laws? This is the million dollar question. The folding stock and ak conversion are in a grey area. The trigger group is a no-no if installed, but not to own(yet) as well as the rest. The other mag conversions are not illegal at all(yet). The rest is not at all illegal(yet). But the thing that has to be remembered, is that all the regs on guns are pretend laws, and are in violation of the Constitution. So it is what you feel comfortable with. And like I pointed out, none of the items are illegal to have if not installed. JM>6) Would this make a good survival hunting rifle? IMHO, they are a very good rifle for hunting. They are on par with the M-1 which are used a lot. JM>7) Does it have a built-in bayonet? If not, are they JM>included when one is purchased? Yes they can be had with either a blade or spike, with the spike being more common. They are attached, and are standard (for now). * SLMR 2.1a * Preconception is the wall between us and freedom.-unknown --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512)282-3941 HST/DS @16.8 (9:1992/2) Ä SURVIVAL_ORIENTE (9:1992/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ECHOMAIL018 Ä Msg : 371 of 381 - 370 + 381 From : Terry Buyers 1:3624/7 Sun 24 Jan 93 10:49 To : Neal Atkins Subj : Chinese SKS ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > One of the best on price/utility. > > JM> 7) Does it have a built-in bayonet? If not, are they > JM> included when one is purchased? > The 20.5 in barrel comes with a triangular poniard like > blade. But why? Are you considering bayonet charges? > SKS bayonet mount is still the best place to attach the aftermarket folding bipod. Makes it obvious to BATF that you have a 'target' rifle. 8-) --- Opus-CBCS 1.10b * Origin: Schrodinger's Catbox(803)652-3760 PRNetSC SURVNet (1:3624/7.0) Ä SURVIVAL_ORIENTE (9:1992/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ECHOMAIL018 Ä Msg : 376 of 381 - 362 + 377 From : Dean Varner 9:1992/2 Fri 22 Jan 93 16:50 To : Todd Preston Subj : Survival Guns ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ TP>DV>I agree with you here, you can get a Sks for $150.. ahum through TP> >me..:) and can do a lot of things to it to make it every bit as TP> >good as anything else. The first thing one might consider doing, TP> >is converting it to take a AK mag. Then you could buy one of the TP> >Advanced Tec. folding stocks, and you have a heck of a simi. If TP> >one where to acquire a trigger group you could also have it if TP> >the need ever arises, to convert to the big A (of course this TP> >would have to be done after the collapse of the government so as not to TP> >be agianst the law or is it legel to have if it isn't installed.) TP>Dean: TP>Are the above described modifications userable, or best left to gun TP>people? Most of them can be done by someone with a little shop skill. The mag conversion is a bit more tricky, but could be done at home, though not recommended, though there are other mags that can be had which doesn't require modification. I recommend no modifications, till one is familiar with the law that regulates it, and then one can use their own info, and judgement to do so. TP>Ref the conversion to the AK mag. I take it then that the magazine is TP>the combustion chamber where the round is fired? I thought that the TP>word magazine was interchangable with the word clip. No the mag is not the combustion chamber, it is only for holding the bullets as they are striped off, and injected into the chamber. Now the revolver does hold each shell to be fired. TP>What is the advantage of a folding stock? (size, packability?) All the above as well as durability, and just the look is effective as a defense mechanism, though I think the folder might be a little heavier. TP>What is a simi? Simi refers to simi-auto. For every pull of the trigger, a shell is fired, and another loaded for the next pull of the trigger. * SLMR 2.1a * Preconception is the wall between us and freedom.-unknown --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512)282-3941 HST/DS @16.8 (9:1992/2)