Ä [89] Misc: SURVIVALIST (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SURVIVALIST Ä Msg : 66 of 89 - 65 + 67 From : Guy Putnam 9:1992/91 Mon 09 Aug 93 01:17 To : James P.caldwell Subj : Information on guns ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ -=> Quoting James P.caldwell to All <=- Hello JP! JP> I've been putting together a group of weapons for survival. JP> So far I've been recommended to get: JP> 22LR semi-auto. Only for small game & _emergency_ defense. Use it right before you go for your knife! For small game solid bullets might be best. Keep hollow point on hand, just in case you have to press it into a defensive role. JP> I've been told not to get the Viper, I like the 10/22 Ruger I've seen. Nice guns, but Ruger is anti-gun. Bill Ruger introduced the concept of a magazine ban, & supported the Brady Bill on a TV interview. I haven't tried a Viper yet, what's supposed to be wrong with it? Get something reliable that will do well in the elements. If you get a lot of money to spend some day , consider a .22 with a silenced barrel, if you live in a state that allows ownership of silencers. JP> 12ga pump or semi auto shotgun (Mossburg 500A pump) Best to stick with pumps, they're a bit cheaper. Never shot any Mossbergs, but they look like they would be good guns. Also, look at the Remington 870 "Express" line. . .very reasonable. With the 870 yoy can get a 20" riot length barrel, with both rifle sights (best) and interchangeable choke tubes, which give you much better flexability for all ranges regardless of what size of shot or buckshot you are shooting. The Mossberg only have cylinder bore chokes with their riot-length barrels, which is my only gripe with them. Actually, improved-cylinder choke is the most open I would use for combat with buckshot, except maybe inside dwellings or outside at night. For more open field use with buckshot, I would perfer mod choke, or maybe even full in really open country. With the Remington you can get all choke sizes in one 20" barrel. You could hunt everything form quail to geese to men with that one barrel. The Rem. "Express" line is competitive with Mossberg in price. Maybe one day Mossberg will wake up to the fact that short barrels don't HAVE to be cyl. bore. Be sure to invest an extra $30 or less for a Tritium night sight by Meprolite. It replaces your regular shotgun bead. If you get rifle sights on your shotgun, you will have to forget it. JP> 7.62 x 39 SKS and/or MK90 semi-auto rifle, cheap. Yea, the SKS is the only main battle rifle you can get for a tad over $100. Wait though, the Russian ones are just coming in to the country. They are supposed to be superior to the Chinese ones in quality. Might as well wait & see. JP> .308 rifle, bolt or semi auto if I can afford it. Most definitely! Springfield Armory M1A, or a used HK-91 are probably the cheapest, still over $1000. However, there is no excuse for not having a military semi-auto like the FN-49 in 8mm, or at least a military bolt gun like a Mauser or British Enfield, for not much more than $100. Also, the M1 Garand is available in the $300-$400 range. That's what I'd go for if I didn't have $1k+ to spend on it. You can even get them in .308, which would compliment an HK91 or M1A at a later date. Get plenty of ball ammo bacause its cheap, but don't forget some soft points; at first for hunting, then as you accumulate, get as many as you can for anti-personnel, especially at closer ranges where you might need to drop looters quickly. JP> What would any of you recommend in the way of reliable pistols? Glocks, if you have the money. Probably around $500-$550. Glock magazine prices have just been cut in half by the factory. JP> None of this fancy stuff, I want a pistol meant for a crude JP> environment. If you can't afford a Glock, get a Chinese Takarov in 9mm, under $200. Its a military pistol built for a crude environment. For around the same price you can get a Makrov, but if fires the odd-ball 9x18mm ammo, though CCI Blazer is now making it in the US. Look for Russian Makarovs & Tokarovs to be coming into the country (if Klinton doesn't screw it up). These Russian imports ought to work to bring down the prices of Chinese guns, too! The Chinese Makrovs have a lighter alloy frame, which I prefer to the Russian steel frame. The best is .45, but you aren't going to find too many cheap .45's. The Chinese copy of the Colt sells for maybe $300+. You might pick up a used Colt (excellent choice) at a gun show for $400, maybe. Again, if you have the money, the Glock .45 is lighter than a Colt, & holds 6 more rounds. Don't forget to get plenty of ammo. Starting minimuns, IMO, would be 5,000 rounds for battle rifles, & 500-1k rounds for pistols. This assumes you have at least some kind of plan for a survival retreat to go to. You can't carry all that ammo on your back! If you have a place to store it, you should plan on spending much more on ammo than you did your guns. Once the balloon goes up, there will be plenty of _empty_ guns around to barter for a handful of ammo. .22 ammo makes good "small change." JP> I'm also following Karen's post and others on a Grab and Go kit. I didn't read the whole thread, but I think these guys got a little carried away from the basic bug-out kit. Check into the Surv_Net files & there are some good lists in there for get-outta-town basics. JP> Doesn't take much to be ready, just good info. That's right. . . .and the goods! ... MuzzleFlash ------>> Austin's Machine Gun Source <<---------- --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] # Origin: FLOTOM * Austin, Tx * (512)282-3941 * H16 (9:1992/91) * Origin: EchoGate! (1:352/111.0) Ä [89] Misc: SURVIVALIST (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SURVIVALIST Ä Msg : 67 of 89 - 66 + 68 From : Allan Hitchmoth 9:1992/209 Mon 09 Aug 93 20:30 To : James P.caldwell Subj : Information on guns ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Hello James! In a message to All <08/03/93> James P.caldwell wrote: First of all, most of what I tell you here is my own experience with my familiar environment(s). The thick woods and mountains of New Hampshire. Your needs may vary......... JP> JP> Hello, JP> I've been putting together a group of weapons for survival. JP> So far I've been recommended to get: JP> 22LR semi-auto. JP> I've been told not to get the Viper, I like the 10/22 Ruger I've seen. As strange as it may sound, I have an AR-7 that drives tacks! It folds up in the watertight stock, floats, has a steel-lined aluminum (very light) barrel, and takes a wide range of magazines (the stock mag. is 8rounds.) It's put out by Charter Arms and is the best $100 I ever spent. JP> 12ga pump or semi auto shotgun (Mossburg 500A pump) Had one.... good field-grade gun. Not the best gun, but about the best for the money (IMHO) JP> 7.62 x 39 SKS and/or MK90 semi-auto rifle, cheap. SKS. I love the one I.....uh...... presently fire on occasion JP> .308 rifle, bolt or semi auto if I can afford it. Guy or Keith should be able to recommend somethin' there. I've got (and get ready for Guy to gag, choke, and cough) a .303 British that's actually accurate. Under 1" groups at 100M (sand-bagged of course). (I only use Federal stuff through it) JP> What would any of you recommend in the way of reliable pistols? JP> None of this fancy stuff, I want a pistol meant for a crude environment. Small calibre..... Single-Six convertible. Single action rimfire. One cylinder does .22 WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) and the other does everything shy of it right down to .22 Mini-Caps (enough to give a muskrat a migraine ). Next choice for small cal. would be the Ruger MKIV .22 LR. (semi-auto). Large bore..... .357 Mag. Lots to choose from. (I bought all my Rugers before Mr. Bill went communist). S&W makes a pretty good choice. If you're going auto-loader in a large calibre, take the Colt 1911. (I _LOVE_ mine!) .45 ACP I love my .44 Mag Redhawk, but the truth is, there's not much room for that size ammo. (Not to mention a potential lack of availability) JP> I'm also following Karen's post and others on a Grab and Go kit. JP> Doesn't take much to be ready, just good info. I hope you find something useful in the above. Stay well.... Al * WCE 1.10/2133 * -Bill, Hillary, Al, & Tipper, - THE ODD SQUAD !!!! --- WM v3.01/92-0682 # Origin: The Quiet Revolution, JOIN "U.S." 603-753-9716 (9:1 (9:1992/209.0) * Origin: EchoGate! (1:352/111.0)