Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,news.answers,alt.answers Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!news.mathworks.com!news.kei.com!world!indra.com!spike From: spike@indra.com (Joe Ilacqua) Subject: alt.locksmithing answers to Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.Edu Message-ID: Supersedes: Reply-To: alt-locksmithing-faq@world.std.com Expires: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 16:08:12 GMT Summary: This post gives answers to many of the common questions asked. It is strongly recommended that it be read before posting to this group. Organization: Indra's Net, Inc. -- Public Access Internet. Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 16:08:14 GMT Followup-To: alt.locksmithing Lines: 672 Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu alt.locksmithing:10395 news.answers:43600 alt.answers:9147 Archive-name: locksmith-faq Last-modified: 95/4/8 Version: 5.2 [I changed jobs in October and the FAQ has moved to follow me.] [The WWW version has moved to "www.indra.com" and the FTP archive to] ["ftp.indra.com".] [Added a section on Master Lock manipulation.] [Added a section on impressioning from Stephen Berch.] [Added a section on code books from William A Moyes.] [Added a reference Steve Haehnichen's pick images.] ALT.LOCKSMITHING ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS _________________________________________________________________ This FAQ does not attempt to teach you locksmithing, just to answer simple questions, give you some hints on getting started, and point you to sources of information. Also included is a glossary of common terms. The Appendix covers many supply places, books and tapes. This FAQ is posted monthly to the USENET groups "alt.locksmithing", "alt.answers", and "news.answers". The latest version of the FAQ should be available from the USENET FTP archives on "rtfm.mit.edu" in directory "/pub/usenet/alt.locksmithing". You can also retrieve this FAQ by email; send mail "mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu" to with "send usenet/alt.locksmithing/a.l_a_t_F_A_Q_(F).Z" contained in the BODY of the message. A hypertext version of this FAQ may be accessed on the World Wide Web using "http://www.indra.com/archives/alt-locksmithing". Questions Answered: 1. Where can I get a lock pick set? 2. How can I make my own picks and tension wrenches? 3. Is it legal to carry lock picks? 4. Where can I get the "MIT Guide to Picking Locks"? + I can't print the Guide! 5. What books can I get on locksmithing? 6. What are "pick guns" or "automatic pickers" and do they work? 7. How do I open a Kryptonite lock? 8. Can the Club be picked? Is the Club any good? 9. How can I get keys stamped "DO NOT DUPLICATE" duplicated? 10. Do Skeleton Keys Exist? 11. Should I bother with high security ("pick proof") locks for my home? 12. What should I do after I read a book? 13. How do I continue learning about locksmithing? 14. How do Simplex pushbutton locks work? 15. Is there a formula that can find the combination of a Master Lock? 16. Can the combination of a Master Lock be found though manipulation? 17. What is the "shear line". 18. What is "impressioning"? 19. What is a code? What is a codebook? * Other online locksmithing related resources * Glossary * Appendix of sources, books, videotapes. * Credit & Thanks 1. WHERE CAN I GET A LOCK PICK SET? Try a locksmith supply house. Look under "Locksmiths' Equipment & Supplies" in the Yellow Pages. Your State or the company may have requirements, such as having to prove you are a locksmith or showing a drivers license; call and find out. Also look for mail order houses in the Appendix. 2. HOW CAN I MAKE MY OWN PICKS AND TENSION WRENCHES? You can file or grind picks out of spring steel. It is best to use spring steel - sources include hacksaw blades, piano (music) wire, clock springs, streetsweeper bristles (which can be found along the street after the sweeper has passed), etc. In a pinch safety pin steel, or even a bobby pin (much worse) can be used. When grinding, keep the steel from getting so hot as to anneal (soften) it. You may have to re-harden/re-temper it. (See a book on knife making, gunsmithing, or machine shop practice for a discussion on heat treating steel.) Some people prefer a rigid tension wrench and just bend a small screwdriver for this, but many prefer a slightly flexible wrench and use spring steel. The "MIT Guide to Picking Locks" and the "Eddie The Wire" books (see below) cover making these tools. There are many places you can buy picks and tension wrenches. See the appendix. Steve Haehnichen maintains an archive of GIF and JPEG images of picks located at ftp://ftp.vigra.com/steve/locks/ which are useful guides for those making their own picks. 3. IS IT LEGAL TO CARRY LOCK PICKS? This depends on where you are. In the U.S. the common case seems to be that it is legal to carry potential "burglar tools" such as keys, picks, crowbars, jacks, bricks, etc., but use of such tools to commit a crime is a crime in itself. Call your local library, district attorney, or police department to be sure. Places where it *is* illegal to carry lock picks: The District of Columbia. 4. WHERE CAN I GET THE "MIT GUIDE TO PICKING LOCKS"? The author of the "MIT Guide to Picking Locks", "Ted the Tool", has posted a PostScript(TM) version of the Guide which can be retrieved via ftp from: ftp.indra.com:/archives/alt-locksmithing/MITGtLP/MITLockGuide.ps.Z You will need a PostScript printer or previewer to view this file. Dave Ferret scanned/typed in a version of the Guide, it is a file of the text of the Guide and a collect of GIFs of the diagrams. This can be found in ZIP and tar format in: ftp.indra.com:/archives/alt-locksmithing/MITGtLP/unofficial Mattias Wingstedt has converted the Guide to HTML and made it available on the Web at http://www.lysator.liu.se/mit-guide/mit-guide.html. 4B. I CAN'T PRINT THE GUIDE! Try deleting the two lines that read: statusdict /lettertray known {statusdict begin lettertray end} if 5. WHAT BOOKS CAN I GET ON LOCKSMITHING? An excellent encyclopedic reference: The Complete Book of Locks & Locksmithing, 3rd Ed. C.A. Roper and Bill Phillips TAB Books ISBN 0-8306-3522-X (Paper) 0-8306-?522-1 (Hard) $18.95 (Paper) $26.95 (Hard) also many people think highly of: Eddie The Wire: How to Make Your Own Professional Lock Tools "Eddie The Wire" Loompanics Unlimited ISBN 0-685-39143-4 4 Volumes $20 Your local book store should be able to order these for you. You can find other titles under "Locksmithing" in the Books In Print Subject Index, which any decent bookstore should have. Also see the Appendix. 6. WHAT ARE "PICK GUNS" OR "AUTOMATIC PICKERS" AND DO THEY WORK? A "pick gun" is a manual or powered device that uses a vibrating pin to try to bounce the pin tumblers so there are spaces at the shear line so the the plug can rotate. They are not a panacea, aren't always effective, and the net seems to feel that these are no substitute for a little skill with a pick and learning how locks work. 7. HOW DO I OPEN A KRYPTONITE LOCK? Easiest: If you registered your lock, call or write Kryptonite for a new key. Or call a local locksmith, they should be able to pick and re-key the lock for you. Easy: Get a car jack and jack it apart. Careful, otherwise it is very possible that you'll damage the bike. Easy: Use a cut-off wheel in a Dremel tool to cut the lock at the hole in the shackle (where there is the least to cut.) Harder: If it doesn't have the newer brass jacket, peel back the plastic coating on the key end, drill out the pin that holds in the cylinder, remove the cylinder, open. Hardest: Chill the metal of the "U" with liquid Nitrogen or Freon, smash with hammer. While this is a "well known" method, it may be an urban legend. 8. CAN THE CLUB BE PICKED? IS THE CLUB ANY GOOD? Stan Schwarz writes: I used to have a "Club", purchased on the recommendation of a coworker. The first time I tried picking it, it took me approximately 30 seconds, using the cap of a Papermate Flexgrip pen for tension, and a bent jumbo paperclip to rake the pins. With practice, I was able to reliably pick every "Club" I encountered in 5-30 seconds using these tools. However, it doesn't really matter, no car thief is going to pick it, they are going to cut the soft plastic steering wheel with a hacksaw or bolt cutters and slip the Club off. It has also been claimed that the Club can be broken if you grab it with both hands, put your feet on the dashboard, and push with your legs and pull with your arms as hard as you can. Be sure to wear gloves! The Club is useful as a deterrent, a car thief may pass over your car for something easier. But if a thief wants your car, the Club will not stop him. An alarm with an ignition kill and a theft recovery system like LoJack is a better, but more expensive, option. 9. HOW CAN I GET KEYS STAMPED "DO NOT DUPLICATE" DUPLICATED? Some locksmiths will take the Nike approach and "Just Do It". Some will even stamp "DO NOT DUPLICATE" on the copy for you. If that doesn't work, label the key by sticking some tape on the "DO NOT DUPLICATE" stamp and try again. 10. DO SKELETON KEYS EXISTS? "Skeleton Keys" are keys ground to avoid the wards in warded locks. There is no analog with modern pin tumbler locks. Master keys may open a large set of locks, but this is designed in when the locks are installed. 11. SHOULD I BOTHER WITH HIGH SECURITY ("PICK PROOF") LOCKS FOR MY HOME? Why not? If you are installing locks, the better quality ones are not much more expensive, and are physically more secure (e.g., have hardened inserts to protect against drilling.) However, note that protection against picking doesn't add a large amount to your security since burglars almost always go the brute force route. Regardless, you should have a deadbolt, and check your window security. 12. WHAT SHOULD I DO AFTER I READ A BOOK? After some reading, then the next thing is some experience. Go to K-Mart, buy a deadbolt lock for around $10, and take the entire thing apart (you'll need tools like screwdrivers, and perhaps a pair of pliers) to see how a pin tumbler lock works. K-Mart carries a clone of the Kwikset which is made to be very easy to take apart. (Key-in-knob locksets are both more expensive and harder to take apart.) You then can practice picking this lock by leaving out all but one stack of pins. This will be exceedingly easy to pick, and will mostly provide experience in manipulating the pick and tension wrench. Then put in one more pin stack and try again - feeling when one stack is picked and then the second one will let the cylinder move. Keep on adding stacks. Try picking with the curved finger, and also raking. 13. HOW DO I CONTINUE LEARNING ABOUT LOCKSMITHING? There are several things you can do to continue learning more about locks and locksmithing. One, of course, is to subscribe to a locksmithing magazine. Some years ago I compared the National Locksmith to the Locksmith Ledger and felt that the latter was a bit better on technical info. Call yourself a Student Locksmith, or perhaps a Security Consultant (surely you have given some advice to *somebody*!). But all this reading won't help all that much, so you have to continue buying various types of locks, taking them apart, figuring out everything about them, and installing, removing, modifying them. Buy some key blanks, make up a master key scheme, and file the keys to fit (assuming you don't have a key machine) - filing may take a few minutes, but it does work. Maybe buy a re-keying kit (kit of different size pins, with a follower) and do some re-keying for your family or friends (the same size pins fit, I think, the familiar Kwikset and Schlage pin tumbler locks) so that their deadbolts can be opened with their normal front door key. Or buy a deadbolt installation kit (hole saw plus template - I think that Black and Decker makes a good one, available at better building supply places) and put in a few deadbolts for your family and friends - charging them only for the material plus a couple of bucks towards the installation kit - and re-key the deadbolt for them, too. Buy or make a pick set, and use your practice locks to practice picking. Do you have a good locksmith supply catalog? If not, give a call to a local supplier, or perhaps to Kenco of Omaha, Nebraska (they have an 800 number) and get their catalog - they sell lots of goodies including most everything I've been discussing. Help people at work who have been locked out of their desks or filing cabinets. Desks usually have wafer tumbler locks which are *much* easier to pick than pin tumbler locks. Filing cabinets are not as easy to pick, but are pickable (actually some are very easy to pick - they vary greatly) and also can be opened by pushing a flexible plastic ruler past the sliding drawer - carefully inspect some working cabinets to see what I'm talking about. 14. HOW DO SIMPLEX PUSHBUTTON LOCKS WORK? Hobbit has written an excellent discussion on workings of Simplex locks. Hobbit left FTP Software and his FTP archive is currently unavailable. This is expected to change by the next time this FAQ is published at the end of March. Stay tuned. 15. IS THERE A FORMULA THAT CAN FIND THE COMBINATION OF A MASTER LOCK? Not as far as anyone knows. You can buy code books with which will tell you the combination for a give serial number, but these are big somewhat expensive books that list every lock. However, John F. Bousquet writes: There is another way. There is a shirt picket sized formula book. From the serial number you determine which of several progressions were used by the factory. Then a guide number is found from the table to divide into the serial number and a remainder is found. This is referenced on a page in the guide. The last digit is manipulated and that narrows it down to about 5 possibilities. I bought one of these 20 pace pocket Try out combination finders and never wound up using it. Now I just call it up on notebook computer. 16. CAN THE COMBINATION OF A MASTER LOCK BE FOUND THOUGH MANIPULATION? Recently a method of finding the combination of a Master Lock has been presented on alt.locksmithing. It seems there is a formula that relates the numbers in a combination to each other. The first and last digit of any combination will both have the same remained when divided by 4, and the second digit's remained when divided by 4 will be - or + 2 from the first and third's remainder. For example, if you knew the last digit of the combination was 5, the first digit could be any digit that had a remainder of 1 when divided by 4 and the second number any digit with a remainder of 3 when divided by 4. This means given one number in the combination, there are only ten numbers that can be in each of the other two positions, and thus only 100 possible combinations given one number in the combination. And it turns out there is an easy way to find the last digit of the combination. On older Master Locks, ones where the arrow at the top is raised, simply pull on the shackle and turn the dial until it catches, that's the third number in the combination. On news locks with the recessed arrow, there are twelve places the dial will catch if you turn it while pulling on the shackle. Seven of these will catch between two numbers, ignore these, and find the the five that catch on a number. Four of these will end in the same digit, i.e, 1, 11, 21, and 31, the fifth end with a different digit, and the is the third number in the combination. This means that given the knowledge, time, and patience, anyone can find the combination and open your lock. But then so can anyone with a pair of bolt cutters, a hacksaw, or maybe even a hammer. These are three (US) dollar locks. They have many useful applications, but they are not high security locks. Plan your usage accordingly. 17. WHAT IS THE "SHEAR LINE"? Visualize a door lock - there is a fixed block (the lock body) of metal with a cylindrical hole in it - the axis of this hole is horizontal. It is filled with a "cylinder", which is the part which turns with your key - and something attached to the rear of the cylinder actuates the latch/bolt when you turn the cylinder. There are some small vertical holes drilled in both the cylinder and the fixed block so they match up - and they are in a straight line which is the same line as the key. Each hole (pin chamber) is filled with (at least) two pins (small cylindrical pieces of metal) but the pins are of varying length, and there is a spring at the top of the chamber so that the pins are pushed away by the spring. The bottom pin is short enough so that it will be pushed completely down within the cylinder and the top pin (imagining right now there are just two pins - extra one are only used for master keying) goes from inside the cylinder to inside the fixed block. Now the cylinder can't turn, because in each pin chamber there will be a pin blocking the "shear" line - the line where the pin chamber would "shear" apart when the cylinder turned. You put your key in - and the different heights on the key are made to "complement" the different lengths of the bottom pin so that all of the bottom pins are raised up just to the "shear line" between the cylinder and the fixed block part of the lock. Then the key can turn the cylinder around its axis and actuate whatever internal mechanisms are inside. 18. WHAT IS "IMPRESSIONING"? Impressioning is a technique for opening a lock by making a key out of a key blank for the lock. The blank is filed to fit; the place and amount of filing depends upon small marks left on the key blank by the pin tumblers. The procedure starts with smoothing the key blank with fine abrasive paper or a very fine file to remove any marks or scratches and to leave a surface which will show the marks. The key blank is then inserted into the lock and the blank twisted from side to side and rocked up and down. The blank is removed and inspected for marks and a shallow cut made with a file on the mark closest to the tip of the blank, or on the most prominent mark. (There are several systems for determining which mark should be cut and for the correct way to twist and rock.) Repeat this for the same position until the tumbler doesn't leave any mark on the blank and then move to the next pin. When the last cut is made the lock should open with the newly cut key - assuming that the interpretation of the marks and the cutting has been done right. The advantage of impressioning for opening a lock is that it creates a key for that lock. But the process is slow and requires a fair amount of skill. With expert skill levels, the process is considerably faster. There are a number of special pliers made to hold the blank and make it easier to give the proper twist with rocking that will mark the blank. The marks on the blank are difficult to see and you must start with a blank that fits the lock. (Or several blanks, as this doesn't always work the first time.) Impressioning may not be as quick and easy as picking the lock. Picking a lock often leaves tell-tale scratches on the tumblers and plug that won't happen with impressioning. 19. WHAT IS A CODE? WHAT IS A CODEBOOK? Ever see a lock on a desk, filling cabinet, or a key with a number stamped on it like FR332, 2H5212, or 61624? Those are called codes. They tell locksmiths exactly how to cut a key to fit the lock. There are three types of codes. There are direct digit codes. Each digit corresponds to each cut on the key, the value of each digit tell how deep to make the cut. Schlage prints the code for the key directly on the key. These codes are usually long, each pin needs its own digit. The second type in which each digit does not directly correspond to the depth, but there is a pattern between the code and the key. Often mathematical tricks are used (for example you must subtract 435 from the code, then cut the key). The last type require a locksmith to have a codebook. There is no pattern to the cuts on the keys. The Reed Codebooks are one of the most common. There are 12 general volumes (cars, cabinet, suit cases, door locks) and 5 padlock volumes. Each volume is about 600 pages long. Several manufactures now selling computer programs that contain all this information. Needless to say that the software is copy-protected. A complete set costs well over $800. OTHER ONLINE LOCKSMITHING RELATED RESOURCES: * Graham Pulford's "Catalogue of High Security Locks" ftp://ftp.indra.com/archives/alt-locksmithing/hiseclox.ps.Z * "MIT Guide to Picking Locks" Web page. http://www.lysator.liu.se/mit-guide/mit-guide.html * "MIT Guide to Picking Locks" in Postscript. ftp://ftp.indra.com/archives/alt-locksmithing/MITGtLP/MITLockGuide .ps.Z * Hobbit's Simplex lock description - Temporarily unavailable. * Steve Haehnichen's pick images ftp://ftp.vigra.com/steve/locks/ * The Online Loompanics Catalog gopher://gopher.well.sf.ca.us/00/Business/catalog.asc GLOSSARY: blank A key that has not yet been cut to fit a lock. core A removable cylinder and plug, used in a interchangeable core system. core key A key which is used to remove a core. cylinder The part of the lock in which the the pins are set and which contains the plug. cuts The notches cut in the key to make it fit a lock. key way The slot in which the key is inserted. master key A key which opens a group of locks designed to match it. pin tumblers The pins in the lock which are moved to the shear line by the key. pin chamber the tubular hole in which pins and a spring stay. plug The part of the lock which the key is inserted and is rotated by the key. wafer tumbler Used in locks which are less expensive than pin tumbler locks. They behave somewhat similarly. warded lock A lock using wards to keep an incorrect key from entering the key hole and turning. APPENDIX Here are some of the things collected about locations and availabilities (most are from alt.locksmithing). We do not endorse any of these, but feel that you can get information by reading. As of this writing Septon is the only supplier that will sell to overseas customers. Septon, Inc. P.O. Box 9, Maiden-on-Hudson, NY 12453 (800) 537-8752 voice (914) 246-3416 fax (914) 246-0638 outside North America Will sell to overseas customers, but requires credit cards and a U.S. $100 minimum order on such sales. Call for Catalog. Phoenix Systems Inc. P.O. Box 3339, Evergreen, CO 80439 303-277-0305 [Survivalist Group, all though the "Shoot all the Commies for God" stuff is kept to a minimum.] Call for Catalog. Here are a few titles: (with Library of Congress Catalog Number) - - ---------------------- Title: Locksmithing Author: F.A. Steed LC Number: TS 520 S73 1982 Title: All About Locks and Locksmithing Author: Max Alth LC Number: TS 520 A37 1972 Title: Professional Locksmithing Techniques Author: Bill Phillips LC Number TS 520 P55 1991 or you can buy books from (no credit cards) Loompanics Unlimited Publishers & Sellers of Unusual Books P.O. Box 1197 Port Townsend, WA 98368 When they say unusual, they mean it! Everything from igloo construction to techniques of execution. There is now a $5 charge for their catalog. As far as we know they do not have a phone or fax for orders. #52042 B & E: A TO Z - HOW TO GET IN ANYWHERE, ANYTIME (VHS TAPE) by Scott French, 1987. Nearly two full hours of on-site techniques to get in any building, beat any lock, open any safe, enter any car. Price: $59.95 #40031 INVOLUNTARY REPOSSESSION -OR- IN THE STEAL OF THE NIGHT by John Russell III (64pp, 1979). Written by a private detective for auto repossessors. All the standard methods of entering and starting locked, keyless automobiles are given. Price: $10.95 #52050 TECHNIQUES OF BURGLAR ALARM BYPASSING by Wayne B. Yeager (110pp, 1990). Alarms covered include: Magnetic Switches, Window Foil, Sound and Heat Detectors, Photoelectric Devices, Guard Dogs, Central Station Systems, Closed-Circuit Television, and more. Price: $14.95 #52047 THE B & E BOOK - BURGLARY TECHNIQUES AND INVESTIGATION by Burt Rapp (149pp, 1989). This is an investigatory guide and practical manual designed for the police officer in charge of a burglary investigation and its follow-up. Price: $14.95 #52054 TECHNIQUES OF SAFECRACKING by Wayne B. Yeager (92pp, 1990). Chapters include: Safe Mechanics and Operations, Guessing the Combination, Manipulation Techniques, Safe Drilling Methods, Punching and Peeling, Torches Etc., Explosives, Miscellaneous Methods of Safe Entry, Safe Deposit Boxes, Deterrence and Prevention, and more. Price: $12.00 #52052 HIGH SPEED ENTRY - INSTANT OPENING TECHNIQUES (VHS TAPE - 1Hr) 1990. Topics include: the Rabbit Tool and Hydra force door openers, the Omni Force jam spreader, the best exothermic lance in the world, two tools that open almost any auto in America, electronic locksmiths, rippers and pullers, shove knives and re-lockers, and more "techie" tools. A complete source guide is included. Price: $39.95 #52032 THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO LOCK PICKING by Eddie the Wire (80pp 1981). The very best book ever written on how to pick locks (quite the claim). Topics covered include: Basic Principle and General Rules, How To Mount Practice Locks, Warded Locks, Disc Tumbler Locks, Lever Tumbler Locks, Pin Tumbler Locks, Wafer Tumbler Locks, Lock Modifications To Thwart Tampering And How To Overcome Them, Various Other Ways Of Bypassing Locks And Locking Mechanisms. Price: $14.95 #52040 HOW TO MAKE YOUR OWN PROFESSIONAL LOCK TOOLS (4 Volume set) by Eddie the Wire (31pp, 1980; 50pp 1981; 44pp, 1981; 55pp, 1986). Basically this set describes how to make all the tools mentioned the above book along with mass production techniques, carrying cases, using a PC to generate pick profiles, making "soft" break-ins, how to "case" a subdivision, and more. Price: $20.00 #52044 PERSONAL PICKS (VHS TAPE - 72min) by Eddie the Wire, 1988. Demonstrates the step-by-step process of making lock tools in the home workshop. Price: $29.95 #52051 EXPERT LOCK PICKING (VHS TAPE - 60min) by Ron Reed, 1990. The author has won the California Locksmiths Association lock-picking championship (I guess that's good). Uses specially designed cutaway, see-through locks, so you can view the inside mechanisms of working locks as they respond to picking techniques. Price: $59.95 #52048 ADVANCED LOCK PICKING by Steven M. Hampton (50pp, 1989). Describes the inner workings of the new high-security locks and includes templates for making custom tools. Schematic diagrams for portable electronic picks to open magnetic key and card locks. Tips on enhancing finger sensitivity, concentration power, constructing practice lock boxes, and more. Price: $10.00 #52045 CIA FIELD-EXPEDIENT KEY CASTING MANUAL (48pp, 1988). How to make a duplicate key when you can keep the original only a short time. Price: $8.00 #52043 HOW I STEAL CARS - A REPO MAN'S GUIDE TO CAR THIEVES' SECRETS (VHS TAPE - 45min) by Pierre Smith, 1988. How to open and enter practically any modern automobile and how to start them without the key. Price: $49.95 #52016 HOW TO FIT KEYS BY IMPRESSIONING by Desert Publications (26pp, 1975). Subjects covered include: Fitting bit keys, Fitting flat steel keys, Fitting lever tumbler keys, Fitting disc tumbler keys, Necessary tools, Techniques of obtaining impressions, and more. Price: $7.00 Wheeler-Tanner Escapes 3024 E. 35th Spokane, WA 99223 509 448 8457. Mainly Magic/Escape Artist supplies, but that includes lots of locksmithing equipment and books. If you need more info, jusk ask. (Catalog is $2, refundable w/ 1st order). CREDIT & THANKS The alt.locksmithing FAQ was put together from postings by spike@indra.com spike@world.indra.com (Joe "Spike" Ilacqua), and hes@ncsu.edu (Henry Schaffer), with a major data collection effort by sanguish@digifix.com (Scott Anguish). Edited by hes. Translated to English by eliz@world.std.com (Elizabeth Lear). Send comments, criticisms, and complements to "alt-locksmithing-faq@world.indra.com". The following have contributed to this FAQ: Scott Anguish J. James (Jim) Belonis II Stephen J Berch John F. Bousquet Chris Boyd Robert Bruce Findler Hobbit Marcus Jenkins Larry Margolis Andy McFadden William A Moyes Stan Schwarz Thomas E Zerucha -- Indra's Net -- Internet Access with an Attitude Email: info@indra.com URL: http://www.indra.com Modem: (303) 786-7405 Voice: (303) 546-9151